World Cup results/reaction thread

El Presidente · Disco Brad

RE: World Cup results/reaction thread

El Presidente · Disco Brad

The news is flying in thick and fast today.

Bob Woolmer, the Pakistan coach, has been taken to University Hospital in Kingston, Jamaica, after being found unconscious in his hotel room earlier this morning.

Woolmer, 58, was discovered lying on the floor of his room, with vomit around him, at 10.45am and was taken by ambulance to hospital at 11.50am. Police also attended his room. "We have taken Bob Woolmer to the hospital and he is in the emergency ward," Pakistan team media manager Pervez Mir told AFP.

At 14.30 local time, Woolmer was still unconscious.

Hope he's OK, but needless to say he had a pretty bad week all round.

joel · Findin' Fundin

El Presidente wrote:

The news is flying in thick and fast today.

Bob Woolmer, the Pakistan coach, has been taken to University Hospital in Kingston, Jamaica, after being found unconscious in his hotel room earlier this morning.
Woolmer, 58, was discovered lying on the floor of his room, with vomit around him, at 10.45am and was taken by ambulance to hospital at 11.50am. Police also attended his room. "We have taken Bob Woolmer to the hospital and he is in the emergency ward," Pakistan team media manager Pervez Mir told AFP.
At 14.30 local time, Woolmer was still unconscious.

Hope he's OK, but needless to say he had a pretty bad week all round.

It's now being reported that he's dead

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

Yes, Bob Woolmer has indeed died. Absolutely astonishing news, I wasn't aware of him being ill or in poor health. I don't think there's any question of any foul play or anything like that, but it will overshadow today's games and possibly the rest of the tournament. RIP.

Otherwise, it's good to see that this thread has exploded into life. The victories yesterday were really amazing; I only hope that nothing transpires the way it did the last time Pakistan surprisingly lost a World Cup match.
I bet Michael Holding wishes he'd never opened his mouth now.

As for Flintoff, well I actually think he deserves his punishment. It was his third offence, and he can't be allowed to go on a bender during a high-profile tournament. But I absolutely do not agree with him being stripped of the vice-captaincy. If Vaughan gets injured (that surely has to be one of the smallest ifs ever), either Strauss will have to be brought back into the side just so that he can be captain, or a new captain will have to be appointed in the middle of the World Cup. Madness.

joel · Findin' Fundin

Muppet wrote:

As for Flintoff, well I actually think he deserves his punishment. It was his third offence, and he can't be allowed to go on a bender during a high-profile tournament. But I absolutely do not agree with him being stripped of the vice-captaincy. If Vaughan gets injured (that surely has to be one of the smallest ifs ever), either Strauss will have to be brought back into the side just so that he can be captain, or a new captain will have to be appointed in the middle of the World Cup. Madness.

Yes, I've had a think about it after learning that he's been on several warnings and I think it's the right decision.

Still think the hypocrites who grassed him up to the papers (and probably spent the entire evening buying him drinks and taking pictures on their mobile phones) are wankers though ...

-- Edited by joel at 20:15, 2007-03-18

-- Edited by joel at 20:15, 2007-03-18

El Presidente · Disco Brad

Yes. Very sad news about Bob Woolmer. I remember him batting with Boycott in the first series I clearly followed in 1977 in England.

The timing of his death is very unfortunate indeed, as it was only this morning we were reading about mass demonstrations back in a predictably disappointed Pakistan screaming "Death to Inziman""Death to Woolmer" after yesterday's loss.

As for Flintoff, well I don't think he is entitled to too much sympathy and I think he'll take it on the chin. I'm certainly not going to point the finger at him for "on tour" boozing as I have famously imbibed a few in the past myself. Andrew Symonds was dropped by Australia in 2005 for a similar act and was able to come back without any major fall-out.

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Sad indeed about Bob Wolmer. Don't know why but I thought he was a (fairly anglicised) Australian. Hope some of the Pakistanis shouting their heads off have a moment's reflection about going too far, though of course we can all say things at the wrong moment.

As for England, it was sadly revealing as I followed their game alongside Australia's on cricinfo...

For the first 50 or so we were up with them and although Collingwood and Nixon emerged with some credit towards the end, the fact Canada are still in touch of (admittedly still most unlikely victory given the 5th wicket just falling) victory with 15 overs left is so poor.

Australia actually lost their third wicket before us, but their response was a 204 partnership... we just play silly shots and still don't seem to be taking it seriously.

As for the minnows innings there was never a moment when the Dutch were allowed anything but brave but brief resistance. England cannot control a game. They can only win if the opposition messes up because our opposition almost always dictates play. We really don't even seem conversant with the idea
of trying to dominate the opposition and stop them putting their plans into practice. We've done so little since 1992 because we've really not developed in the 1-day game - plod along and hope Lamby or his successor gives it a good smack at the end.

I can't see them improving significantly if they get to the Super 8, though there is still the memory of those last 4 CB matches.

Fletcher did a great job with the test team, but our one-day efforts are so poor. Maybe we should split the two up and have a one-day coach, as well as the much needed one-day captain.

Will Vaughn ever get a 1-day century now?

-- Edited by Golcar CC at 21:55, 2007-03-18

joel · Findin' Fundin

It is shocking. Every sport the same. I blame skunk, feral inner city kids and reality TV.

Joking aside, though, what does it take to get England taking THE WORLD CUP seriously?

Golcar CC wrote:

Will Vaughn ever get a 1-day century now?

He'll be putting in a call to El Presidente to check on Slovenia's availability for a fixture very soon I fear...

joel · Findin' Fundin

Can I just check with the more informed members of this forum that letting Canada get over 200 is shockingly negligent?

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Not so well informed but I can remind you that Kenya would agree, having despatched them for 199 and then knocking that off for the loss of just 3 wickets.

They'll be very encouraged by England's two performances so far.

joel · Findin' Fundin

Clearly Dalrymple has to go, useless lump.

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

Golcar CC wrote:
Not so well informed but I can remind you that Kenya would agree, having despatched them for 199 and then knocking that off for the loss of just 3 wickets.

They'll be very encouraged by England's two performances so far.

I am genuinely worried about the Kenya match. We'll have to see how they get on against the Kiwis, but they really will be going for a win against us. Another performance like the one today and we could be arriving at the airport on the same day as the Pakistanis.

paichukka · ...Ding!

Top order is ****. Pitiful batting yet again by them. But none of them should be there. Opening bowlers are mediocre (just not intimidating). I'd rather have Saj in, at least he has the potential to win us a big game (as well as lose it fairly rapidly I admit). Dalrymple is being found out. And our leading light is pissed. But it's not as if we have a hope of winning it, so don't fret, it's shaping up to be a great tournament. Except for Bob, RIP.

Here's a better team, off the top of my head, in batting order:

Benning, Spearman, Shah, Pietersen, Collingwood, A Flower, Flintoff, Mahmood, Vaughan, Panesar, Hoggard

Flower and Spearman are both England-qualified, while Vaughan is the second-best 1-day spinner that England have. He just can't bat for toffee in this format. There, we know what happens next...

El Presidente · Disco Brad

paichukka wrote:

Here's a better team, off the top of my head, in batting order:

Benning, Spearman, Shah, Pietersen, Collingwood, A Flower, Flintoff, Mahmood, Vaughan, Panesar, Hoggard

Totally agree with you about having Shah and Hoggard there. Don't know which selector's daughter Hoggard was caught "in flagrante" with. To say he can't play one day cricket and to pick Anderson instead is insanity. When Anderson is good, he's very good, but that only happens one out of every 20 matches on average. The experiment has failed and he has to go. As for Flower, that's not so crazy either. Don't remember Craig Spearman ever being any good though. How about Stuart Law? (a one day specialist with a test average of infinity)

He just can't bat for toffee in this format. There, we know what happens next...

Are you going for the reverse Joao here?

In other news Inzaman Ul Haq has announced his retirement from One Day cricket and stepped down as Test captain, and rumours seem to be starting of an overdose related death for Bob Woolmer. Incredible how much fallout one litle cricket match result can create.

joel · Findin' Fundin

paichukka wrote:

Here's a better team, off the top of my head, in batting order:

Benning, Spearman, Shah, Pietersen, Collingwood, A Flower, Flintoff, Mahmood, Vaughan, Panesar, Hoggard

Flower and Spearman are both England-qualified, while Vaughan is the second-best 1-day spinner that England have. He just can't bat for toffee in this format. There, we know what happens next...

I'll take your word for it on some of those names, but A Flower? 38-year-old Zimbabwean Andy Flower?

Come on.

El Treasurorio · Senior Member

I watched the whole game yesterday and England were, well, England. Our batsmen, although playing solidly, never applied pressure to the Canadians until in the last 5 overs when Collingwood and Bopara let rip. It was all a little too couldn't be arsed. Twas interesting to have Australia playing simultaneously, as you could see how a smarter and more determined team could accelerate if they applied pressure.

As for our bowling, it was pretty much like our batting. No real application or drive, no twist to the knife. To be fair, there were 3 LBWs turned down, but we far from convincing. To let Canada get past 200 was in the context of our lacklustre performance ok: we were never in danger of losing, but neither were we in danger of forcing a result.

Regarding previous posts about Freddie, I think the ECB were right to punish Flintoff. Nobody is greater than the team (although half the team were with him). As for those who dobbed him in, I reckon some might have had reason: I'd be fairly pissed off having paid 3,000/4,000 quid to go to the Caribbean only to see my England team totally pissed up having lost to the Kiwis. Rather amusing story though. After time, it'll all be water under the pedalo...

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

El Treasurorio wrote:

I watched the whole game yesterday and England were, well, England. Our batsmen, although playing solidly, never applied pressure to the Canadians until in the last 5 overs when Collingwood and Bopara let rip. It was all a little too couldn't be arsed. Twas interesting to have Australia playing simultaneously, as you could see how a smarter and more determined team could accelerate if they applied pressure.

As for our bowling, it was pretty much like our batting. No real application or drive, no twist to the knife. To be fair, there were 3 LBWs turned down, but we far from convincing. To let Canada get past 200 was in the context of our lacklustre performance ok: we were never in danger of losing, but neither were we in danger of forcing a result.

I saw the BBC highlights, and I think "couldn't be arsed" is a pretty accurate way of putting it. Ruthless it wasn't.

The gulf between the two sides was clear, and there was no question of Canada challenging us, but England just seemed happy to toss a few juicy deliveries up to them and let them get a few boundaries on the grounds that the wickets would come eventually. As El Tres mentioned, there were also two ABSOLUTELY plumb lbw shouts turned down, which let the Beavers off somewhat.
Ravi Bopara bowled nine overs of what can only be described as genuine medium pace, which says something. He is not a world-class one-day bowler. Sure, he got a couple of wickets, but he had a run a ball scored off him, and too many of his deliveries just sat up and tempted the batsmen. As I say, maybe that was the plan, but it was in marked contrast to the ruthless approach shown by the Aussies.

Dalrymple to be replaced by Flintoff for the Kenya match. No point playing two spinners just for the sake of it. Anyone agree?

El Presidente · Disco Brad

joel wrote:

Clearly Dalrymple has to go, useless lump.

Yes. I can't take the man seriously. He sounds like he should be a cheap single malt, not a member of the English cricket team.

Anyone want Yardy back in the squad?

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Pedalo Pecadillo

Radio 5 commentator: So, the boat, you just started pedalling out to see.
Freddy: Well I accept there was a bit of poetic licence about that, but it was wrong.....

Good meaningless answer, seamless avoidance of the question. Strongly push on to the slightly less embarrassing bits.

joel · Findin' Fundin

Re. the England openers, and this may be a naive question with an obvious answer, but why was Alastair Cook not considered for the squad?

He probably hasn't hit a six since God was a boy, but his previous 2 ODIs yielded 39 and 41.

Are they protecting him? Has he got homework* to do?

*Or "prep"

-- Edited by joel at 11:56, 2007-03-20

joel · Findin' Fundin

edited because I asked a dumbass question

-- Edited by joel at 18:47, 2007-03-20

paichukka · ...Ding!

and I would have given a smartass answer

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

Bob Woolmer's death is now being treated as "suspicious" by the Jamaican police.
Pervez Mir on the radio this morning was chucking around the word "murdered" with worrying abandon ("Obviously it's too early to say that Bob was murdered..."). Extraordinary times.

Meanwhile, some things don't change. Michael Vaughan tripped over a pothole yesterday afternoon and is now receiving treatment on that knee of his. Now that we have no vice-captain, maybe we should take a bet on who'll be captaining the England side in the next match?

joel · Findin' Fundin

With regaaards to the Woolmer investigation, who is that Mark Shields fella? He's deputy commissioner, but his face is really familiar. What was he before?

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

joel wrote:

With regaaards to the Woolmer investigation, who is that Mark Shields fella? He's deputy commissioner, but his face is really familiar. What was he before?

He's a British cop brought in to clear up the streets or something. He does look familar... not sure where from tho (Midsommer Murders?)

Meanwhile there are claims Bob Woolmer was poisoned or even strangled, perhaps because he'd found out about a match-fixing scam.

Seems slightly unlikely ... the Ireland result was odd but it really be worth chucking the entire tournament as well as a match?

joel · Findin' Fundin

Golcar CC wrote:
He's a British cop brought in to clear up the streets or something. He does look familar... not sure where from tho (Midsommer Murders?)

Torygraph

Seems he used to be anti-turrurist plod in London, must have seen him lapping it up in a press conference or something.

It's very 2007 this Woolmer story -- hundreds of theories, everyone's an expert. A pint to the first poster who can find a link between Woolmer, Diana and Ian Huntley, via 9/11 and Pearl Harbour of course.

El Presidente · Disco Brad

joel wrote:

. A pint to the first poster who can find a link between Woolmer, Diana and Ian Huntley, via 9/11 and Pearl Harbour of course.

Bob Woolmer, Diana Spencer, 11th September, Pearl Harbour, Ian Huntley

all contain the letter e - spooky isn't it?

Yes it's a weak and pathetic link, but I'll do anything for a free pint.

joel · Findin' Fundin

Check out the headline currently on cricinfo:

Netherlands ride on ten Doeschate 70

I looked at that for an age before I realised what they were going on about.

El Presidente · Disco Brad

joel wrote:

Check out the headline currently on cricinfo:

Netherlands ride on ten Doeschate 70

I looked at that for an age before I realised what they were going on about.

Nice segue into what I wanted to talk about. Scotland are the highest rated "minnow" in the tournament and the 12th team in the upcoming 20 / 20 World Cup. They have just been handed their asses on a large silver platter by The Netherlands, who have been battling with Bermuda for the distinction of the worst team there.

So the question is. What happened to Scotland? (invites smartass replies)

Angus? Any defence before the likes of Paichukka start tearing into them?

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

An inventive attempt by the Scots to "get out of the group" by relegation to Euro-Group Division 5, perhaps?

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

During a break in a presentation I was giving this afternoon to some colleagues, I had the Netherlands v Scotland latest scorecard on my PC, and thus projecting up on to the wall as well.
A very attractive blonde Dutch girl by the name of Attie was the first to arrive back in, and asked what the sport was. I told her it was cricket and pointed out that her country was in the process of thrashing Scotland. She was so amazed and delighted that I really hadn't the heart to tell her just how appallingly bad the opponents in question were.

What sports are the Scottish actually good at? Curling & hurling don't count.

brazo de natillas · King of the divan

Bob Woolmer stuff now getting too disturbing to ignore...

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

I really really really can't believe it. "Asphyxia by manual strangulation".
The only thing I can think at the moment is: what sort of individual takes a sport that seriously?
Goodnight...

Angus · Veteran Member

Jamaican police have just confirmed Bob Woolmer was murdered. He was strangled in his room. This is one of the darkest events in cricket history. Poor, poor Bob.

El Presidente · Disco Brad

Yes. Terrible news. What should be crickets crowning glory and shining advertisement for the game is now tainted forever.

The latest news is that an arrest has been made. We await with apprehension and horror.

-- Edited by El Presidente at 07:40, 2007-03-23

joel · Findin' Fundin

Grim stuff and very sad.

El Presidente · Disco Brad

News just in that no Pakistan player is currently suspected of being involved in the Bob Woolmer murder. This story gets more disturbing by the hour. Non-stop coverage on Sky.

It would be far more pleasant to be ruminating on the first really big match of the tournament. Sri Lanka vs India - a must win for India. Sri Lanka will probably still make the super 8s even if they lose, but India would not want to be counting on Bermuda beating Bangladesh to keep them in the tournament if India lose today.

I have a feeling Sri Lanka are going to be a bit too good for India with the added pressure India have of needing the win to stay alive.

El Treasurorio · Senior Member

"Donald: 'Call off World Cup'."

Although with events having turned as bad as they are, surely Donald is showing the same type of judgement as his farcical run out in 1999? I don't think Woolmer would have wanted it called off but it's certainly going to test the competence of the ICC to the full. Donald is right, however, that this world cup will be remembered for the murder and not the competition.

Although am not one for speculation, the full revealing of the appauling events could be such an upset that cricket might take years to recover.

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

I think it's fairly simple for the ICC:
Think about calling it off, and then carry on with it.

I know it's frowned upon to mention money issues when we're dealing with a tragedy, but if they called off the entire tournament, the loss to the ICC in missed revenues would have a potentially catastrophic effect on the development of the game. And for what? It won't make things any better for anyone.
Every player should be asked if they feel they can continue, and every player should say yes.
Cricket lover that he clearly was, I cannot believe that Woolmer himself would ever have wanted the tournament to be cancelled, whatever the grizzly circumstances.
On with the show, boys...

joel · Findin' Fundin

Muppet wrote:

I think it's fairly simple for the ICC:
Think about calling it off, and then carry on with it.

I know it's frowned upon to mention money issues when we're dealing with a tragedy, but if they called off the entire tournament, the loss to the ICC in missed revenues would have a potentially catastrophic effect on the development of the game. And for what? It won't make things any better for anyone.
Every player should be asked if they feel they can continue, and every player should say yes.
Cricket lover that he clearly was, I cannot believe that Woolmer himself would ever have wanted the tournament to be cancelled, whatever the grizzly circumstances.
On with the show, boys...

That just about sums it up I think.

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Yes it's an awful turn of events, but cancelling the tournament wouldn't really help anybody - and would set an awkward precedent, too.

Some Champion's League matches were cancelled when the Twin Towers were attacked, weren't they? But that was on a whole other level.

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

They were rescheduled, as a mark of respect. That's fair enough, but to cancel a whole tournament, which teams have been preparing for for the last four years, would be excessive. I think the "minute's silence" approach is best.
The most productive course of action for participants will be to speak to the police about their suspicions, and be as candid as possible.

-- Edited by Muppet at 14:06, 2007-03-23

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Muppet wrote:

-- Edited by Muppet at 14:06, 2007-03-23

I demand to see the original of this post. What was edited out? Is this censorship? If you have suspicions please be candid. I think

-- Edited by Golcar CC at 14:41, 2007-03-23

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

I omitted a comma after the word "years". That's what happens when you dont preview.
It's a fair cop...

Angus · Veteran Member

I agree, not just for the ICC. It would ruin Caribbean cricket, tourist resorts, every travel company riding on this event, the players who have waited a lifetime for this tournament, and the fans who have shelled out their life savings to get there. Awful events, but, as someone else said, what good would cancelling it do?

El Presidente · Disco Brad

Meanwhile on with the show. We can happily switch some attention back onto the pitch for what seems to be shaping up to be a great game. Sri Lanka's Chamara Silva has quietly racked up his 4th one day fifty in a row, as Sri Lanka look like posting between 230 and 250. Should be an absloute classic match, Tendulkar vs Murali? Malinga vs Sehwag? Can't wait.

El Presidente · Disco Brad

28.1 Muralitharan to Dhoni, OUT, Dhoni walks for a lbw. It was that plumb. Fab delivery. Landed on the middle stump line and hurried on straight - a stunning toppie, Dhoni had backed to cut and he had no place to hide. Tried to get his bat down in a hurry but the ball rushes on and rams the pad. Dead duck. What a bowler!

India look like they'll be on a plane home shortly at 117/6 chasing 255. Only Dravid and the tail left now.

The World Cup's audience has just halved! What a surreal tournament. India hit 418 in their last match, but may not be good enough to get out of their group.

Which one was the so-called "group of death" ? This one, wasn't it? Seems it was the right name.

joel · Findin' Fundin

El Presidente wrote:

28.1 Muralitharan to Dhoni, OUT, Dhoni walks for a lbw. It was that plumb. Fab delivery. Landed on the middle stump line and hurried on straight - a stunning toppie, Dhoni had backed to cut and he had no place to hide. Tried to get his bat down in a hurry but the ball rushes on and rams the pad. Dead duck. What a bowler!

India look like they'll be on a plane home shortly at 117/6 chasing 255. Only Dravid and the tail left now.

The World Cup's audience has just halved! What a surreal tournament. India hit 418 in their last match, but may not be good enough to get out of their group.

Which one was the so-called "group of death" ? This one, wasn't it? Seems it was the right name.

I don't know. Some heroics from Dravid could do it

If it happens, I called it.

Love watching SL in the field though. Electric.

paichukka · ...Ding!

Sri Lanka have the best bowling line-up in the tournament I reckon. SL, NZ, SA and the Convicts for the semis I still say. Gutted I didn't put money on this earlier.

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Yes the semi-finalists pretty much pick themselves...

the Super 8 should now line up as follows:

Australia ?
South Africa ?
New Zealand 2pts
Sri Lanka 2pts

West Indies 2pts
Ireland 0
Bangladesh 0
England or Kenya 0

W Indies have a slight chance of making the first four as hosts and with the two points under the belt already. However, everyone should pick up 2 points against Ireland anyway and probably against the Bangles. England will have to beat Ireland and Bangladesh and having already lost to NZ have to win at least 3 of their matches against SA, SL, WI and OZ.

If we beat Kenya this is our schedule:

Fri 30 Mar v Ire (Georgetown)
Wed 4 Apr v SL (Viv Richards Stadium, Antigua & Barbuda)
Sun 8 Apr v Aus (ditto)
Wed 11 Apr v BNG (Barbados)
Tue 17 Apr v SA (ditto)
Sat 21 Apr v WI (ditto)

So if we lose against Sri Lanka and Australia we're already out.

-- Edited by Golcar CC at 13:04, 2007-03-24