Vaughan out with injury. The Flintoff / Strauss Captaincy debate returns.

El Presidente · Disco Brad

Vaughan out with injury. The Flintoff / Strauss Captaincy debate returns.

joel · Findin' Fundin

Yes, give it to someone who wants it, which is Strauss. Flintoff has performed better with the bat, and to a lesser extent with the ball, since Vaughan came in.

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

I'm inclined to agree.

Flintoff certainly falls into the "natural leader" category, but I think we might do better with at least some of the pressure of his shoulders.

Strauss did a good job when put in charge and although I don't think Flintoff really did so much wrong, another perspective might help.

Plus the captaincy can hardly make Strauss' batting return much worse!

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

I know it's a little pessimistic, but as we have pretty much zero chance of getting a result against the Aussies on Friday, I think that sticking with Flintoff might be best as he's already toughened up from all the test defeats. Especially if it's only going to be for one match.

Also I don't think it's healthy to keep chopping and changing the captaincy: Vaughan is captain, Flintoff is effectively vice-captain and stands in if Vaughan's injured. At least that way everyone knows where they stand. If they want to look at it again, they need to wait till after the World Cup.

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

That's a good point as well Muppet.

Oh no, I'm like that Fast Show character who just agrees with the last thing he heard.

Perhaps, it comes down to how Freddy himself feels. If he has doubts then why not hand over, while the selectors "stripping" him of the captaincy may not bolster the flagging team spirit.

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

According to BBC, they offered it to him, he thought about it for a whileand then decided to accept, although anyone would have forgiven him for turning it down. Ever the trooper our Fred.

The Lancastrian comes to the rescue of the Yorkshireman once again...

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Hmmm, I think in terms of captaincy even Lancastrians would rather Vaughn were back at his best.

Bollocks enough sitting on the fence. Flintoff hasn't worked as captain for whatever reason. Give the "arm around the shoulder" or the "right word at the right time" to get him fired up and give the job to Strauss.

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

Golcar CC wrote:

Flintoff hasn't worked as captain for whatever reason... give the job to Strauss.

Don't forget Strauss as captain suffered a 5-0 whitewash of his own last year, at the hands of Sri Lanka in the one-dayers. (Though luckily no-one noticed because we were all watching the nogomet World Cup at the time.)

Sorry, but now is not the time to be introducing new captains on a tour. If they wanted him as captain they should have given him the job from the start.

-- Edited by Muppet at 16:07, 2007-01-17

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Looks like the management team are on top of this issue after all.

So I suppose I win this thread (don't know where I'll put it).

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

Golcar CC wrote:
Looks like the management team are on top of this issue after all.
So I suppose I win this thread (don't know where I'll put it).

You can't seriously be suggesting that they should make Strauss captain for both, sorry ALL, of this weekend's matches?

paichukka · ...Ding!

Should have been Strauss all along, as some of us said. Too late now though. And a thriller going on too...

Golcar CC · Bezalgo

Muppet wrote:

Golcar CC wrote:
Looks like the management team are on top of this issue after all.
So I suppose I win this thread (don't know where I'll put it).
You can't seriously be suggesting that they should make Strauss captain for both, sorry ALL, of this weekend's matches?

should have made. it's daft to go on record saying he doesn't want to do it, and then have him as captain.

Did all right today tho. besides it'd be good for Strauss to have something to do.

Luxury · Heading for toffee

No debate as far as I'm concerned - neither Vaughan nor Strauss get into the 11.

Vaughan has never had any real one-day form. He's got a low average; never scored a century; he's a poor fielder; he's coming back from injury; he's played next to no cricket for a year.

Three wins on the trot against Australia says Flintoff can be one-day captain. Not ideal but the team seems to have stumbled on a formula so let's take it into the world cup and give it a go.

Whatever Vaughan's tactical brilliance as a captain (which has been exaggerated anyway), it doesn't makes up for wasting a batting spot.

Muppet · Je suis l'état et l'état c'est moi

I sort of agree. You have the weird situation now where the coach is saying that a player plays better when he's not captain, but still has no hesitation in making him captain whenever the need arises (currently around 3 out of every 4 matches).
If FF were to turn down the offer, that would force Fletcher's hand, but he won't do that.
So what can Fletcher do? Other than pray that Vaughan stays fit?
He can scarcely put a new captain in place right at the start of the World Cup, can he?